General Do's and Don't's.

Great advice here

Fist one should be Be nice and have fun. It is easy to loose sight of this especially after the third avoidable wipe, but it is important to remember!

I would expand on Above all else protect the healers and Rez people.:
In general just keep an eye on what is happening to the party even if you are not the main tank or the healer. If someone starts to loose health quickly take a look and see what is pounding on them and see if there is anything you can do to interceed. Don't always expect the tank to be able to switch targets and regain agro from the offending monster and save the poor soul being pounded!

Not having done all that many instances to date I need to investigate this one Depending on the instance put pet on passive or put it away. a bit more. I would think that just putting the pet on passive would do the trick in all cases but have heard enough high level Hunters saying differently to make me want to find out for myself. To me it seems like having an extra damage taker (my pet) can be invaluable in saving a Healer or overzealous Mage from death while leaving the Main tank to deal with the main adversary and those still beating on him, would be invaluable in all cases, but time will tell on this.

This one When getting hit a lot resist the urge to run crazy as this will cause more aggros. can not be emphasized enough! Quickest way to die in a dungeon os to run around like a chicken with its head cut off trying to avoid a monster that is probably beating the snot out of you as yuo run! Makes targeting you (for healers) and the monster (for those trying to pull agro from you). Many groups willjst let yuo die and deal with ressing yuo after the fight, than risk the whole party on tryng to target you or the monster to save you. If you are getting hit just stay put and do what you can to either kill the offending monster or atleast do a bit of damage on the way out. A good group will see you taking damage and take steps to save you. Running will not help your chances of survival and could actually easily lead to a wipe of the entire group!

I would also add:

Be aware of the 'F' key. Target the Main Tank and when you hit 'F' you will target whatever they are targeting. This way you can always be beating on whatever the main tank is concentrating on and not draw agro away from them. When the monster is killed, retarget the Main Tank hit the 'F' key again and do it all over again.

Pet thing. I personally like the pet with me for the extra damage and that I can feign and still keep the aggro from hitting someone else. Unfortunately the pet sometimes takes a wierd route to ge tto a target or if the target runs and pet chases.

The compromise I have found is to keep it passive and use it sparingly, pulling aggro off of me. but some people out there are hunter haters.

Here I go resurrecting another topic. Just call me the Threadomancer. lol.

Anyways, here are a few tips to make dungeon running more pleasant for everyone.

Chests - Remember to always roll for chest. Too many times have I been in a group and some noob would just walk up and open a chest because he could. Also, if there is something in the chest you don't need, let someone who does have it. I mean, it's yours and most likely no one will say anything about it if take everything, but, say you're a warrior and find a good pair of cloth gloves, if you offer items you don't need up for someone who does, the other players will notice and want to go on runs with you in the future. I have a few friends in other guilds I run with alot and I have fun with them cause we if someone needs something, we let em have it. This brings me to my next tip.

Hogging - Don't be a drop hog. Just because you can loot something, doesn't mean you have to. If a piece of lenin or wool or something drops, and you're skilled in alchemy, leave it and let someone who can use it have it. And if an item drops that you can't use, pass on it. And if something drops you really need, don't need roll it right away. I have learned that if you ask the group if you can choose need, if no one else can use the item, they will usually say OK. Remember no one likes a hogger.

Stay Together - I can't stress this enough. This is a huge game with alot of data and even a company as huge as Blizzard can only afford so much bandwidth, which means people with slower computers or connections are gonna lag sometimes. If you see someone fall behind, wait for them or send another member to escort him incase an enemy respawns and begins attack the helpless player. Also remember that if a player gets to far away from the group, he/she won't be able to share in the XP you gather or have a chance to roll for an item drop they may need. Think of the 4 Musketteers. All for one and one for all.

Dying - If you die, and a healer/rezer is still alive, don't release your spirit and hall ass back to the instance. Someone will rez you eventually. But if everyone, or more persicely the healer(s), dies, then release and hall as back to the instance.

Healers - Remember Hunter and Warlock pets. There are alot of hunters/warlocks who use certain pets as tanks, mainly those with bears or pigs/Voidwalkers or Fel Guards which have more armor than the most stoutest of warriors. Remember to pay attention to the little portrait below the player's portrait and heal their pet if it starts taking damage. Remember that though hunters and warlocks can heal their pets, they can only do it a little at a time which in a dungeon full of elites, helps very little so help then take care of their pets because the pets are part of you party as well.

Runts - If you're a lower level than everyone else in the group, you are the runt of the group. Remember to always stay in the back or in the middle of the group so you don't aggro a bunch of creatures that could wipe out the group. That is the quickest way to make people mad and get yourself kicked from the group. And for you Twinks out there. Twinks are good for pretty much only one thing, pvp. Just because you can beat someone 10 levels higher than you, it doesn't mean you'd stand a chance against a monster 5 levels higher. Fire and ice enchants on your weapons won't do squat if you don't have the physical damage to back it up because most enemies have resistances and sometimes those resistances can make your weapons do less damage than if they weren't enchanted. Try going through the Burning Steppes or Searing Gorge with a fire enchanted weapon, you won't last long.

Anyways, that's it for now. I'll add more as I think of it.

Good to resurect this with us gettign more folk in the guild lately.

Had some experience with an instance run, being the 'runt' and pet controll this past weekend.

Runt - this can not be overstated. As the lowest level in the raid you will have the largest agro radius (it is amazing how far this can go at times ) and can wipe the group withotu even trying. Even if the fight is going on with everyone else involved, if it is relatively close to others those others will rush in and rip you a new one and then do the same to the rest of the group quite quickly. After this weekend I probably will only get involved as the lowest level if I am a ranged class (which I am on this server ) like Hunter, Mage, Shaman or Warlock. Of course a Priest can go early as well.

Pet Control - I would also say to turn growl off and cower on to help even more. My pet only died once this past weekend and we wiped . . umm . . . er a few times more than that

Hi, Darq checking in.

I do NOT like end-game 20+ raid content in general, but I do a LOT of instaces & am asked in on a fair number of raids, anyway. ^^

Here's some of what I do that keeps getting me as leader/co-leader/advisor on runs.

Before the run:

*MAKE SURE YOU HAVE ENOUGH TIME!!!

*Repair all your equip

*Bring the right gear for the job

*If you NEED consumables, get them BEFORE you go - such as food, water, reagents, etc.

*If you are doing something quest-related, be SURE you have whatever you need with you - that it is not in the bank, with an NPC, etc.

*If you expect this to be a big-drop run, have enough bag space clear (as a LW, my crafting stuff takes up a LOT of space - so, I usually leave it all in the bank).

*Craft BEFORE you go - potions, armor kits, weight/sharpen stones, mana/wizard oil, cooking + food, etc.

*RESEARCH!!! If you use mods, some of them can tell you the maps, bosses, possible drops, chest locations, etc. You can do some of this even while in-flight. Keeping Wowhead or Thottbot open in a window can also help you with boss strategies.

*Know what YOUR role is on the run, and stick with it as much as is possible. Related to this, who has run this before, and knows it? And who will ASSUME THE RESPONSIBILITY for actually leading???

*(related to that, do you know the raid icons/symbols/paint markers? And do you all agree on what they mean???)

*Discuss professions BEFORE/at the beginning of the run. So mining nodes, skinning, etc. are discussed for rotations.

*For that matter, discuss the run itself - is this a boss run? Quest completion? Full run? Full clear?

At the beginning:

*Talk it out before/at the beginning of the run.

*Quest share all you can. To do this, everyone needs to be close by, AND have room in their quest log!!!

*Buff & share any buffs you have, AFTER pets are summoned. (enslaved demons/infernals are never buffed; for others, it really depends on the length of summon time. 10 min + is usually worthwhile; under 1 minute almost never is) - if an imp will be used in combat, the warlock will need to de-phase it.

*Set the leader.

*Use the first few mobs to work out basic strategy. VERY important, esp in a pickup group.

*make sure everyone loots, but only take what you need/have use for. Grey items (armor/weapons) usually sell for a LOT, so pick them up if you have room!!!

*Darq's Chest Rule: I use a variation on chests that we came up with in Nature's Grace. We think it is better, but you need to put it up BEFORE the first chest shows. 1) ANYONE opens the chest, and grabs the cash(which is party split anyway) . 2) you LIST the other items - number & links 3) people ROLL on the greens/blues JUST LIKE NORMAL - need & greed 4) the excess is left behind for whoever wants/needs

In the run:

*Have fun. It IS a game, even though a run/raid may be serious. If your negative emotions get really too strong, you need a vacation. I suggest Tahiti!!! ^^

*Remember your role. I can't stress this enough. If you are a hybrid, be prepared to switch, in an emergency or for a boss fight.

*the 2 most important people are the tank, and the primary healer. If the tank dies, the party is in trouble immediately - because the healer is usually the next target. If the helaer dies, then the party is in trouble as well (which is why I LOOVVEE taking hybrids along whenever possible)

*Keep an eye on everything around you, including behind. Deadmines is famous for its 3 'gank patrols' that spawn BEHIND you, and they can easily rip through a party by taking out the healers/squishies while the tank & DPS are busy up front!!!

*watch buff durations. If you get a buff you DON'T like/want, then just right-click the icon to get rid of it, and then let the person know, so they do not do it again.

*Try to keep the downtime to a minimum, but DON"T rush others!!! If they need to eat/drink/bandage, let them!!!

*Don't slow the whole run down. Once, I was the only skinner on a Sunken Temple run. I got booted from the party not because of my DPS/healing, but because I was STOPPING TO SKIN EVERYTHING. Good for me, but VERY poor party etiquette. This also goes for real life food, drinks, bathroom breaks, computer issues, etc. - try to keep all that to a minimum.

* BoP are always passed by everyone - even if it is the only thing you are there for. Need, then greed. If it is something no one can use, and theyre is someone who can DE, then it is better (esp. for a blue item) to roll greed on the DE material.

(Actually, there are long threads/discussions on looting/rolling etiquette; I should track one down and cut&paste in a new thread)

*Hopefully, you have a looting value mod - on that shows you how stuff stacks, & how much it is worth. stacks of cloth ALWAYS AH well, and cloth converted to bandages is functional, good for skilll leveling, and vendors well (heavy bandages also take up less room than regular or stacks of cloth)

*The advice up above about death and releasing is excellent. Just because you are dead, you are NOT helpless. You can help with communications, as well - letting people know health percentages, looking out for danger spots (such as people starting to back up into a potential add's aggro range, etc.) IF YOU RELEASE AND A MOB DIES, YOU GENERALLY DO NOT GET CREDIT OR A CHANCE TO LOOT!!!

*A dead mob can be 'held' for a short time, to keep it from despawning. To do this, START to 'loot' it, but leave the window open (so you are in the kneel position) until everyone is back.

*In the case of a full wipe, meet back at the ENTRANCE, and go together. No one wants to say 'Sorry, I died again. Stupid patrol respawned.' This applies for rogues, hunters, and stealthed kitties, as well

* Do NOT steal aggro from the tank!!! This can happen to anyone, really. If it is a BM-buffed pet, or a buffed-out felguard, that isnt so bad. But if it is a mage, priest, hunter, then, there IS a problem. If it seems to be happening regularly, you NEED to lower your ranks of spells (this will also help with mana), or change your tactics. (for me, this was the hardest thing to learn to do, esp. when I got my Moonkin form). In a boss fight, this is probably the single biggest cause for a wipe.

*Know your debuffs!!! Everyone should be ready to use them!!!

*As a general rule, the key to non-boss fights is crowd control, CONTROLLED/selected pulls, and COMBINED destruction of targets. Let me give an example:

1) 5 in party, and 5 enemies. Each person takes 1 target. When 1 target dies, that person moves on to help others. This SOUNDS logical, but is really, really, a generally bad idea. The reason why is that, generally speaking, a mob fights at absolutely full capacity right until it is dead.

2) 5 in party, and 5 enemies. 1 is sapped, 1 is sheeped, 1 beast is hibernated, 1 demon summon is banished, leaving 1 caster functioning. Now, for the next 30-60 seconds, it is 5 vs. 1 . And 5 people unloading on ANY 1 mob are going to keep it very busy indeed.

There are LOTS of ways to crowd control. Off the top of my head, roots, hiber, soothe, sap, gouge, blind, mind control, banish, freeze, sleep, use a pet, etc. Get to know them, learn to use them, and don't break them - you will find runs go MUCH easier. (This is why 2-man hunters can regularly take on 5-6 mobs at a time - it is all CC & tactics)

->FEAR is usually a very BAD idea - do NOT use it, and be careful of it being used on you.

*There are way too many bosses & situations to cover, but in general, tactics are important, as well as clearing out any trash potential adds. Boss fights are where/when you will want to pop those potions or use those summons/trinkets

After the run:

*Immediately thank everyone. Some people leave seconds after a last boss, esp. if 'their' drop didn't drop, or it has been a long/difficult run.

*See who needs what. Maybe you've picked up some cloth that you really don't need, but you've noticed the rogue making bandages. Go ahead and offer it up.

*If you are the mage, offer a portal.

*If you have any of the party 'long buffs' - such as ImGotWild, or Arcane Brilliance, pop off one more, so they can 'take it with them' even after the run.

*Anyone you liked running with, ask to add to your friends - ESP if it is a good tank or quality healer. I also like tagging quality rogues (with high lockpicking!!!) and hybrids, as well.

*If you do crafting, be sure to tell everyone, in case they want/need some work. Same goes if you want/need some work done!!! Also, and enchanter may be able to do DE work for you, for either the mats to be AHed, or used to enchant your gear.

I hope that was helpful; I'll add in anything else I can think of.

As a final note, you can practice a lot of this by just regular partying with people. Very easy to get your group together in Gad, and practice on some mobs outside of ZF BEFORE you go inside.

Mods, ventrillo, printed-out dungeon maps, etc. are all really useful. but ultimately it is how YOU play that will determine a large part of the groups success!

Love,

~Darq~

Darq,

That all sounded excellent!!
As a primary healer, I do want to add one thing that you did touch on. LET THE HEALER DRINK FOR MANA!

I have been in countless groups who get finished with one mob and dart to the next while I'm sitting to try and get my mana up. A healer with no mana is a -dead- group.. and no one likes to foot those repair bills!

Keri

Very nice Darq. Those were some very good facts you posted.

There is one thing, however, that really bugs me and alot of others. It conscerns the main healers and Tank/Healer hybrids. My paladin has gone on lots runs as both tank and back up healer. Sometimes even as main tank. So I know what I'm talking about.

If you have a paladin, especially a holy spec, like me, tanking, listen to him/her. On alot of runs I have been on, I often find myself yelling at the main healer because they keep healing me when I don't need it or want it. Even when I state it before the run. Remember as a paladin, I can heal my self. Now if I'm getting swampped and can't a heal off, then please, by all means heal away. But if I'm going up against 1-2 monsters and got everything under control, save your mana for those who really need it.

Remember that Paladins are the most self sufficient class in the game. They have the defenses and offens of warriors and the healing spells of a priest along with many powerful buffs/debuffs (Blessing of Might/Wisdom, seals and judgments, auras, etc.). Remember the main reason people prefer Paladins over any other class in a run/raid is because they all in one, a tanik that can take and deal out damage very well, even holy specs like me, someone who can heal themself which means that's one less person for a main healer to worry about, thus, saving his/her mana incase things get hairy, a back up healer if the needs arrises, ressur incase the main healer dies, and someone with buffs suitable for all classes.

Paladins can also be what saves a group from a complete wipe. Many times Have I found myself the only one left alive and would either kill the monsters that are left, or bubble and run then come back and rez. Yes a priest can bubble and run, but as soon as their buuble is gone, so are they because a few hits from elites and they're dead, unless they get lucky. But paladins can take a good beating long enough to out run monsters til they turn back.

My paladin can take down two elites of his level, most other classes struggle with one. They are, as far as PvE is concerned, IMO, the most powerful class in the game. So if you have a paladin in your group, and he's not a total noob, listen to him if says don't heal.

I've gotta agree that you really have to listen to each other. On that same note, though, just because a pally or druid can heal, doesn't mean you should just not pay attention to their health at all. I'm in the same boat with my main (feral dps kitty druid)....sometimes we can just jump in and switch into whatever position we're needed for a save a run that goes nasty. I'm mainly kitty, but I've switched out to do backup healing, and then into bear as the tank dies, all within the same mob. I've also been in situations, though, where I 'need' healing and people just don't pay attention because they think I can do it on my own. They seem to forget that I have to switch out and lose some of my armor for that sort of thing...and that I can't always get a heal off if my casting is interrupted constantly by whatever's on me. And I can't exactly help out everyone else if I'm dead, lol.

The point is...talk to each other and 'listen' (not just when they say don't heal, but also when they say heal!). If the pally/druid is doing fine and someone else is taking major damage, then obviously heal the other person because it's almost guaranteed that the hybrids are watching everyone else, too, in case they need to switch roles and help heal...so they know when they need to heal themselves, too. Communication is important overall, too, so this sort of thing doesn't just apply to hybrids. After all, if the mage says he's going to sheep something and the rogue is sapping, then you probably don't want to head after those two targets to immediately pull aggro and kill everyone, hehe.

Wanted to bump this up to the top.

Good Idea on the Bump, excellent points across the board as well. It seems to me that now we need to start working on the teamwork across the board by implementing more "guild group runs". Though the groups I've ran with (thanks for not shooting me) have all operated well it's time to get more people involved.